Random my ****

[dunover]

***But - (I still remember one boozed up evening at 32Red that saw £1000 disappear (we're probably talking 2008 or so), finishing off on some shite single liner on £3 spins and me not quite understanding where my 95% was supposed to be) - and whilst I don't claim to know everything, I do think I have a pretty solid understanding of what makes them tick. ****

Moreover, you're voluntarily giving them your money, which isn't traditionally how robbery works.....

Wasn't Tunzamunni by any chance?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Wasn't Tunzamunni by any chance?

Ha! That bloody thing.... No it wasn't that, Tunzamunni had a fixed coin size of 5p, and to have a shot at the progressive you had to play five coins, so it was basically 25p per spin at the most.

I've still got a video of it in one of my archives

Ahhh, when you could configure the Viper Client to do 9999 spins on the autoplayer and leave it going overnight



The single liner I'm talking about I can't remember specifically, MG had loads of them, some of which were clones, but it would have been something like this.

Mrs Chopley was out with friends and Chopley Jnr was in bed, I watched £1000 disappear over the course of an evening along with quite a lot of alcohol. And then had to knock myself out with benzos to take the edge off having just spunked a grand, and to give myself any chance of sleep.

And then I learned about matching your stake to your bankroll, and how RTP is reached over very large spin samples, and how some games are more volatile than others, and so on.....

By the time 2013 rolled around and I set about Arctic Adventure I was a lot more clued up, but Arctic still provided a good lesson in how the specifics of a game's maths model can deliver some pretty strange player experiences.

 

[snorky510238]

Part of my point @ChopleyIOM was, that I could have chosen any game and probably got the same outcome. You’d have to be deluded to think out of thousands of games to choose from, I got so unlucky, that I picked the only one capable of this kind of outcome.

And, how do you explain this away? In the first 5 years of playing Bonanza, at every Casino I asked or checked, my rtp was never once lower than 94%. Then in the next 2 years, any Casino at which I have played a decent amount of spins are all between 82 and 88%. How is that even remotely possible without underhandedness playing a massive part?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Part of my point @ChopleyIOM was, that I could have chosen any game and probably got the same outcome. You’d have to be deluded to think out of thousands of games to choose from, I got so unlucky, that I picked the only one capable of this kind of outcome.

And, how do you explain this away? In the first 5 years of playing Bonanza, at every Casino I asked or checked, my rtp was never once lower than 94%. Then in the next 2 years, any Casino at which I have played a decent amount of spins are all between 82 and 88%. How is that even remotely possible without underhandedness playing a massive part?

I don't think that's the case snorky, and whilst I'd hate to encourage any actual gambling, I would say with a high degree of confidence that if, for example, you'd happened to pick Double Fancy 7s, you'd have been within 1-2% of T-RTP after your 10K spin sample, because the volatility profile of that game is as flat as a pancake, and it's still on the books at VS (not sure about MrVegas).

The thing I find slightly strange about this whole scenario though, is you're the one who's still depositing and playing at online casinos, whilst also trying to convince us all that they're borderline criminal operations, running dodgy games that don't make percentage, are compensated (against the terms of their licences and certification), and are generally being messed with on a constant basis to hoodwink the player out of his money.

On the other hand, I don't believe any of that, but I've still made the decision to stop playing online, and haven't played online for weeks now, simply off the back of nerfed RTPs, crap modern game design, the general faff of moving money in and out of online casinos and all the various hoops that have to be jumped through to do so - i.e. I don't think they're cheating us, but I've found enough about it all that's objectionable to decide to not bother.

It'd make a lot more sense to me if the roles were reversed!

 

[goatwack]

It's a strange thing, is slotting. Players are told to trust the science, and when a game falls wildly short of anything resembling its theoretical RTP, no sample is ever large enough, not forgetting that players don't have Mary Poppins bags of infinite funds to find out!

Still not sure why RTP stats can't be ascertained from a few hundred thousand spins, but slap 'high-variance' and 'billions of spins' on it and suddenly developers have their ready-made Get Out Of Jail Free Card to wave at the player base, realizing that never is a long time indeed!

There's no excuse for hiding behind this cloak of immunity, as players had high-variance games in years prior without this level of masochism and developer deceit.....so to pass off player's improbably bad streaks as just bad luck or needing to spin more is not on, there has to be some form of accountability for their product (which we'll never see).

Thankfully then, I'm in the privileged position of having called slots rigged before, and thankfully, after. And though I hold out hope for slots to become viable again, I just pray that it's before my 85th birthday!

 

[jasonuk]

It's such an easy cop-out... but sadly also very true.

I would love to see providers publish proper statistics on their gameplay, and a small number do publicly (in the game help). I don't buy the counterargument (discussed in other threads) that these would be "misleading" - if you understand then it's incredibly useful, if you don't then it's gobbledegook to you anyway.

The one stat that would help this debate - is how much RTP is being pumped in those bigger wins, say 500x+, 1000x+ and 2500x+. We know some providers are already pumping 5%+ into the top prize alone, so I wouldn't be surprised if some are 20% or even 30% at this point.

When so much RTP is going up top, these latest "innovations" are a very different beast - you're not playing for entertainment, you're not even playing for playtime... you're playing all-or-nothing.

And that's where the variance calculation would bite - because if you're looking at say 1 in 10000 to get a piece of that 20% big win RTP, you would need a substantial number of spins - as in 500k or more - to get a feel for the variance of that part of the curve.

So if we rewrite the 95% as 75%+20% - you'll quickly get a handle on the 75% part after a couple of thousand spins, but the 20% will be much more elusive.

 

[bamberfishcake]

It's a strange thing, is slotting. Players are told to trust the science, and when a game falls wildly short of anything resembling its theoretical RTP, no sample is ever large enough, not forgetting that players don't have Mary Poppins bags of infinite funds to find out!

Still not sure why RTP stats can't be ascertained from a few hundred thousand spins, but slap 'high-variance' and 'billions of spins' on it and suddenly developers have their ready-made Get Out Of Jail Free Card to wave at the player base, realizing that never is a long time indeed!

There's no excuse for hiding behind this cloak of immunity, as players had high-variance games in years prior without this level of masochism and developer deceit.....so to pass off player's improbably bad streaks as just bad luck or needing to spin more is not on, there has to be some form of accountability for their product (which we'll never see).

Thankfully then, I'm in the privileged position of having called slots rigged before, and thankfully, after. And though I hold out hope for slots to become viable again, I just pray that it's before my 85th birthday!

There is no need to concern yourself with such complications.

The intricacies of slot design are too advanced for the average person to comprehend. You can rest assured that all is above board, and casinos have your best interest at heart.

What we feed you has been tested under rigorous circumstances. There is no need to share any more information. Just deposit, without question.

I am The Science

Anthony Fauci

 

[ChopleyIOM]

It's such an easy cop-out... but sadly also very true.

I would love to see providers publish proper statistics on their gameplay, and a small number do publicly (in the game help). I don't buy the counterargument (discussed in other threads) that these would be "misleading" - if you understand then it's incredibly useful, if you don't then it's gobbledegook to you anyway.

The one stat that would help this debate - is how much RTP is being pumped in those bigger wins, say 500x+, 1000x+ and 2500x+. We know some providers are already pumping 5%+ into the top prize alone, so I wouldn't be surprised if some are 20% or even 30% at this point.

When so much RTP is going up top, these latest "innovations" are a very different beast - you're not playing for entertainment, you're not even playing for playtime... you're playing all-or-nothing.

And that's where the variance calculation would bite - because if you're looking at say 1 in 10000 to get a piece of that 20% big win RTP, you would need a substantial number of spins - as in 500k or more - to get a feel for the variance of that part of the curve.

So if we rewrite the 95% as 75%+20% - you'll quickly get a handle on the 75% part after a couple of thousand spins, but the 20% will be much more elusive.

There are multiple culprits we can point to in the intriguing case of 'Who Killed Online Slots?' - massively increasing volatility and impenetrable maths models would certainly be near the top of the list, especially as 'real reels' are basically now a thing of the past (even on reel based games), and obviously so on cluster based games and suchlike. Games such as Bonanza have reel strips so long as to be near meaningless, and can switch them out dynamically depending on what it's doing (or perhaps more tellingly, what it doesn't want to happen).

In the days of the MG Viper Client slots, you could literally extract the reel strips and work out the game maths, plus the paytables often gave a very good indication as to the volatility of the game you were playing. This was one of the reasons I stuck with 3Dice for so long, as they still had a decent number of these more 'traditional' style games on their books, but alas even they went down the cluster game route and I found myself feeling increasingly uninspired by their output. (I had high hopes for their most recent release Dreamweaver, which looks like a reel-based game, but then you actually play it and realise it's a cluster game. Sigh.)

I reviewed it in this thread - Introducing a brand new Slot at 3Dice -DREAMWEAVER! 100% Match up to $100! - Casinomeister Forum

I remember we discussed some of this stuff at great length when the whole Jammin' Jars controversy played out, and many of us noted here at CM, and myself in videos on my previous YT channel, that we'd reached a point of complete disconnect between what the player was seeing on screen, and what the backend server RNG was doing, to the point that you're not playing an online slot at all in the sense of what many of us would consider that to be.

Add in all the other stuff that's going on, nerfed RTPs, old (far better!) games constantly being retired (I know it's hard to believe now but NetEnt used to put out banger after banger!), general shittiness from both online casinos and the regulators, along with the increased friction in getting money in and out of online casinos, and of course the constant deluge of what are IMO low-effort games from a million different providers who are motivated to create games that take as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, in their brief 'window of opportunity', as opposed to trying to satisfy you in the longer term as both a player and customer - and well, it's certainly no mystery as to why I've decided to hang my online slotting hat up and do something else.

(Oh and bonus buys of course, which I think have corrupted game design on a fundamental and completely unfixable level for as long as they continue to exist. Plus, lest we forget NLC's action spins, which literally do away with the entire pretence of even making a fucking game at all, reducing the process down to the gambling equivalent of injecting heroin straight into the veins.)

I mean, on a broader sort of level, I actually agree with snorky - i.e. it's all gone to shit and there's no point playing anymore, we just seem to have a difference of opinion on the specifics of exactly what's happened (And he, for some reason, is still actually playing the bloody things.....)

 

[snorky510238]

I don't think that's the case snorky, and whilst I'd hate to encourage any actual gambling, I would say with a high degree of confidence that if, for example, you'd happened to pick Double Fancy 7s, you'd have been within 1-2% of T-RTP after your 10K spin sample, because the volatility profile of that game is as flat as a pancake, and it's still on the books at VS (not sure about MrVegas).

The thing I find slightly strange about this whole scenario though, is you're the one who's still depositing and playing at online casinos, whilst also trying to convince us all that they're borderline criminal operations, running dodgy games that don't make percentage, are compensated (against the terms of their licences and certification), and are generally being messed with on a constant basis to hoodwink the player out of his money.

On the other hand, I don't believe any of that, but I've still made the decision to stop playing online, and haven't played online for weeks now, simply off the back of nerfed RTPs, crap modern game design, the general faff of moving money in and out of online casinos and all the various hoops that have to be jumped through to do so - i.e. I don't think they're cheating us, but I've found enough about it all that's objectionable to decide to not bother.

It'd make a lot more sense to me if the roles were reversed!

How can I take a man seriously, when he quits online gambling because of nerfed rtp’s but plays pub slots. Still trying to get my head around that one.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

How can I take a man seriously, when he quits online gambling because of nerfed rtp’s but plays pub slots. Still trying to get my head around that one.

I go to the pub once every six weeks or so, and generally speaking I'll try £20-£60 on £1 spins just for a quick punt, and leave it at that. Sometimes I'll get deeper in than that, sometimes I won't bother at all. Either way it's a relatively rare thing for me to do, and also it's done as a sort of social activity as my chums will assist with their 'lucky presses' i.e. A long way removed from the solitary activity of grinding away for hours at low stakes on online slots.

The other point, of course, is that to play a machine in the pub, you just put money into it, and if you win, you get money out of it, I don't have to show the landlord ID and spend weeks faffing about with SOW should I happen to get lucky

Remember, nerfed RTPs were just one factor in a list of reasons why I decided to call it a day with online slots (which are literally all detailed in my previous post), I've not sworn off all forms of gambling in the entire world forever - because I still like to try my luck with a bit of a gamble from time to time.

 

[dunover]

Well, it costs a fair bit to make a game and it's volume over quantity with most providers. To be fair, Gnatent did release many new mechanics with only a small proportion being 'reglasses' as did Quickspin. Microgaming did rework many games like TSII into IR and TFRoL etc. but did enough to convince you they weren't simply clones. Pragmatic have released the same 15 games 20 times each to make their catalogue up in the main, with IGT collapsing into irrelevance as have WMS under the Shite & Blunder banner. Relax Gaming use smaller studios and have a decent range but again their portfolio relies on the ultra HV Money Train mechanics, about 8 or 9 of them so far. BTG copy every 'new' game at least once as we saw with Bonanza/Chilli and numerous variations of the their 4096-way games being re-released with slight tweaks.

Yggdrasil used to be OK although they did little that was original by the time they came to the fore and now rely heavily on numerous partner studios to rehash games. Elk seem to release a 'new' version of Shitetropolis and/or a Toro game every quarter as do Thunderkick with their Beat the Bishop editions. Don't even fucking mention sodding fishing slots.

Novomatic died online years ago as did Merkur and Blueprint produce mainly MW games or yet another version of their 20-line King Kong cash-style multi-feature games like Ted, Thundertwats and Austin Powers etc.

Once a developer is established and has sufficent turnover they have little incentive to make more totally new games as they rest on their cash stream laurels and if the worst comes to the worst they can always make a bespoke version of newer successful mechanics invented by others (as they cannot be copyrighted it seems unlike themes). This is why we get for example BTG making their Golden Snatch MW version of the fishing collector mechanic.

So this along with nerfed RTPs in most incidences has given a rather generic and boring look to most new games with little reliance on the average player for feedback and a lot on certain streamers with demo accounts and their sucker fans. But if you produce enough of them to increase your developer portfolio and have them sitting in casino offerings, the value of your company and takeover price seems to rise exponentially.

As for £500 multi-game terminals at 90/92% I wouldn't empty my bladder into the note mechanisms of one let alone put cash in.

 

[kou187]

(I know it's hard to believe now but NetEnt used to put out banger after banger!)

Couldnt agree more.
Every week there was a cool new game with quality and effort put in to it.

Those fond times however as you know, are long gone now Mr Choppers....
Instead now they couldnt release a good game to save there lifes.

Lets be Honest!

And i still check there new releases year after year just to see if they can produce anything worth playing. But sadly no joy every time.

I guess Starburst extreme and twin spin extreme can pay. At least they did when i played them,

But yeah all there other release now are super duper low variance, time wasting, patience wasting, crap games.

 

[Christine28]

Slots have always been made to in the end suck you dry.

However 10 years ago they at least let you have some bang for the buck and you could have hours of entertainment for a 20-50€ deposit.

Now they just suck you dry faster than ever. There's really no point anymore in even playing and I have drastically lowered the amount I spend on online casinos.

Most casino’s nowadays are just there to suck as much money from a player as they can, with boring game themes that don’t even entertain any more…Casinos are the biggest manipulators of all time.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

As for £500 multi-game terminals at 90/92% I wouldn't empty my bladder into the note mechanisms of one let alone put cash in.

They're alright for what they are, as a bit of social fun they can be entertaining. I always go to the pub with friends so I'm with others when I play, and (as per the videos on my channel) it's generally a joint endeavour with chums. That said, you do see people lumping away at them by themselves, which on 90-94% payouts is going to hurt once you start to get significant number of spins played.

Back when there were still compensated machines to be found in the pubs, I'd go out to do my 'rounds' as a money-making exercise, because compensated machines were always so badly coded and fuckable, but of course there's no such concept with a random game (I've never gone out to play the randoms, and during the transition phase from compensated to random machines, I'd avoid the pubs that had only randoms in them.)

I just see the randoms in the pub as a fun way to have a bit of a punt, I take an amount of money out with me that I'm happy to spend, and if it goes, it goes.

 

[Valhalla]

This happens to me every time on L'il Devil.
Started at a balance of £40 with 15 hearts to get. Finally unlocked heartstopper free spins and coincidentally won almost exactly the amount I just spent "chasing" the enhanced bonus. I'm 16 pence in profit.

This happens every time I get those free spins; I win whatever I just spent from my last deposit.

 

[TheAddict]

Well, it costs a fair bit to make a game and it's volume over quantity with most providers. To be fair, Gnatent did release many new mechanics with only a small proportion being 'reglasses' as did Quickspin. Microgaming did rework many games like TSII into IR and TFRoL etc. but did enough to convince you they weren't simply clones. Pragmatic have released the same 15 games 20 times each to make their catalogue up in the main, with IGT collapsing into irrelevance as have WMS under the Shite & Blunder banner. Relax Gaming use smaller studios and have a decent range but again their portfolio relies on the ultra HV Money Train mechanics, about 8 or 9 of them so far. BTG copy every 'new' game at least once as we saw with Bonanza/Chilli and numerous variations of the their 4096-way games being re-released with slight tweaks.

Yggdrasil used to be OK although they did little that was original by the time they came to the fore and now rely heavily on numerous partner studios to rehash games. Elk seem to release a 'new' version of Shitetropolis and/or a Toro game every quarter as do Thunderkick with their Beat the Bishop editions. Don't even fucking mention sodding fishing slots.

Novomatic died online years ago as did Merkur and Blueprint produce mainly MW games or yet another version of their 20-line King Kong cash-style multi-feature games like Ted, Thundertwats and Austin Powers etc.

Once a developer is established and has sufficent turnover they have little incentive to make more totally new games as they rest on their cash stream laurels and if the worst comes to the worst they can always make a bespoke version of newer successful mechanics invented by others (as they cannot be copyrighted it seems unlike themes). This is why we get for example BTG making their Golden Snatch MW version of the fishing collector mechanic.

So this along with nerfed RTPs in most incidences has given a rather generic and boring look to most new games with little reliance on the average player for feedback and a lot on certain streamers with demo accounts and their sucker fans. But if you produce enough of them to increase your developer portfolio and have them sitting in casino offerings, the value of your company and takeover price seems to rise exponentially.
I wouldn't empty my bladder into the note mechanisms of one let alone put cash in.

those notey mechanismisms constantly swallow money for no credit returns. Although I never got ma shlong out over such an argument, its ceartinly been considered before.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

those notey mechanismisms constantly swallow money for no credit returns. Although I never got ma shlong out over such an argument, its ceartinly been considered before.

The worst notey mechanisms of recent years were those used by Betcom (also G-Squared and some others), they were absolutely notorious for erroring on note payouts, and then 'losing' £10 of the balance every time the machine was turned off and on. This meant that by the time the engineer got to the machine, it could have lost £50 or more of the player's balance, depending on how many times it'd been turned off and on.

It became commonplace for players to film themselves collecting the bank, so that they had evidence of the balance before the machine decided to steal some of it, should it chuck an error.

Stories abound of engineers helping themselves to the 'lost' funds when they got to the machine to fix the blockage in the mech and restore the machine to active duty.

Bastards like this one:

 

[TheAddict]

Yeah i know the one there Choppler, lol. I reckon I'm owed not far from 1k due to the cheap shit they fitted them with.

 

[satchnz]

View attachment 193625

This happens to me every time on L'il Devil.
Started at a balance of £40 with 15 hearts to get. Finally unlocked heartstopper free spins and coincidentally won almost exactly the amount I just spent "chasing" the enhanced bonus. I'm 16 pence in profit.

This happens every time I get those free spins; I win whatever I just spent from my last deposit.

So don’t leave us hanging! What are you going to spend the 16p on?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Yeah i know the one there Choppler, lol. I reckon I'm owed not far from 1k due to the cheap shit they fitted them with.

Ouch! The AWPs here never had note payouts on them so we were spared the worst of it, although I do remember once when I was over in the UK having a Moo York Moo York error on payout and then having 'lost' £40 for the engineer's visit, that was a ballache too as I had to pursue the claim once I was back on the IOM. I think I've still got the emails I sent back and forth with Bob Rudd, had to ring them up in the end

It was more just the point of principle than anything else, it was so well known that the noteys Betcom were using were absolute shite, there was no way they didn't know about it. It was a right haggle as well, the pay should have been £153, they started at £119, then agreed to £135, then finally agreed to £153. I think in the end they figured it was cheaper for them to just give me my money to make me go away.

Ha, just had a search, I kept arguing with them until they gave me the full amount, down to the last £18 I didn't even take it for myself, I just let my brother know there was £18 he could collect from there when he was next passing, and to get himself a takeaway or something with it.

 

[TheAddict]

lol Chop.
I think my best was
"look, mr Wetherspoon's manager, if i put in a tenner, i eats it up. Also, look a this recording from 5 seconds ago, it stole my money and gave no credits, but luckily I was recording!"
"ah, i see. yes, i saw that. It Just swallowed your money. I'll call the engineer, so that's 40 it owes you now then."
Some days later...

"hello again mr Wetherspoon's manager. I'll have a pint of your freshly out of date tranny piss please, oh, and have you got my 30 bones from digi unit from he engineer, yet?"

"Oh. he came and had a look, and said it was a false claim"

I then begun to wonder what happens if i fold up all the nice beer coasters on the nearby tables, and wedge them into the machines holes, so decided to find out.

....

 

[satchnz]

lol Chop.
I think my best was
"look, mr Wetherspoon's manager, if i put in a tenner, i eats it up. Also, look a this recording from 5 seconds ago, it stole my money and gave no credits, but luckily I was recording!"
"ah, i see. yes, i saw that. It Just swallowed your money. I'll call the engineer, so that's 40 it owes you now then."
Some days later...

"hello again mr Wetherspoon's manager. I'll have a pint of your freshly out of date tranny piss please, oh, and have you got my 30 bones from digi unit from he engineer, yet?"

"Oh. he came and had a look, and said it was a false claim"

I then begun to wonder what happens if i fold up all the nice beer coasters on the nearby tables, and wedge them into the machines holes, so decided to find out.

....

So I wonder what that does to the already abysmal RTPs?

 

[jasonuk]

I remember we discussed some of this stuff at great length when the whole Jammin' Jars controversy played out, and many of us noted here at CM, and myself in videos on my previous YT channel, that we'd reached a point of complete disconnect between what the player was seeing on screen, and what the backend server RNG was doing, to the point that you're not playing an online slot at all in the sense of what many of us would consider that to be.

Not that I need to start shouting at the same cloud on this one - I remember my "structured rant" made it to the video of the day - sure enough, the warning that the UKGC were asleep was a hint of what was to come.

Add in all the other stuff that's going on, nerfed RTPs, old (far better!) games constantly being retired (I know it's hard to believe now but NetEnt used to put out banger after banger!), general shittiness from both online casinos and the regulators, along with the increased friction in getting money in and out of online casinos, and of course the constant deluge of what are IMO low-effort games from a million different providers who are motivated to create games that take as much money as possible, as quickly as possible, in their brief 'window of opportunity', as opposed to trying to satisfy you in the longer term as both a player and customer - and well, it's certainly no mystery as to why I've decided to hang my online slotting hat up and do something else.

This is the sad part - the big names are so risk-averse that we end up with 200 versions of Fishin Frenzy or Lightning Link, and the small names are more interested in leeching off those ideas rather than try and come up with something unique...

There are whole tranches of ideas floating around that nobody has taken on - they're more interested in "innovating" by releasing yet another knock-off of Pharaoh's Tomb (like Eye of Horus).

(Oh and bonus buys of course, which I think have corrupted game design on a fundamental and completely unfixable level for as long as they continue to exist. Plus, lest we forget NLC's action spins, which literally do away with the entire pretence of even making a fucking game at all, reducing the process down to the gambling equivalent of injecting heroin straight into the veins.)

And the list kept going... Blueprint "All Action" with the base game removed, tiers of bonus buys, enhanced spins, paid respins, Barcrest big bets (cloned from the FOBTs), and then as you mention operators and casinos alike skipping the game entirely and doing text-based adventures at hyper-turbo-mega speed, only presenting the visuals for big wins and bonuses.

I don't give the UKGC credit for much now-a-days, but banning bonus buys saved us a lot of headaches - and showed just how dire most modern "slots" (if you can even call them that, probably scratch cards at this point) actually are.

 

[pekka55]

Fishin frenzy is probably the worst game I've ever played. You put it on auto spins for 100 spins and about 60-70 of those spins are completely dead. Sprinkled in between those are a few micro wins. If you're lucky you might catch a 5x bet win somewhere. Then you miraculously hit the bonus round on the last spin out of those 100 spins and lo and behold you win exactly up to what your starting balance was.

Rinse and repeat this over and over and I'm supposed to believe this shit is totally random? Yeah right.

 

[PMKFRUITPRO]

So it’s 100% RTP then??

Every time I play any Fishin frenzy bollox it’s a complete shit show.

In fact if any of those games make RTP I’d be amazed based on my experience with them. Yet for some reason they are so popular. Why??

Got to be some of the worse games ever made.

Always use to wind me up when sitting in bookies on a Keybet or poker or something and litterally anybody that loaded up the game would bonus it off peanuts!! So tilty as every time I tried it would be absolute carnage to land one.